Category: philosophy/religion topics
The foundation of my belief in God/religion is based on love, giving, sharing, and helping your brothers and sisters in this beautiful world God created. In all the main publications us religious follow, these concepts are foundation. I did a bit of research to learn how many hospitals, charities, and organizations were available to me in my city if I were Atheist, and objected to religion so strongly I did not wish to use any service affiliated. This is the experiment I’d like you to try.
In my city, and state, and I even went a bit further I did not find a hospital I could attend. I did locate some world charities, and I think they are doing great work, such as the Temple Of India, but that one isn’t even close to me at all. I read a few mission statements, and these organization, are mainly in operation to refute religion and God not to “give to the people in need.” but “We are fighting religious oppression.” Many also have learned that services for women are the corner stones to change the tide of belief, due to women being the main teaching force for our children. Yes, I do recognize that religious organizations push religion, but not all.
Without God where would our Saint hospitals be our homeless shelters, food banks, community centers to help the needy? When mother nature decides to blow, where would our Red Cross, world help, moneys for religious organizations pouring in to add the clean up? When science forgets that God/nature is all powerful and ignores these facts to build things where they probably shouldn’t be built in the first place, such as in Japan, where are the humanist organizations, the scientific fund for disasters? Win you are sick rich or poor, do you turn down the services of say Saint Mary’s Hospital, die and turn to dust, that’s all there is after death according to Atheist; because you can’t come to God, and God’s people for assistants?
In God we trust, and believe is why we are strong. Our world society thrives. No, we Godly people are not perfect, and all our organizations don’t give freely, but for the most part, and that is much we are here for anyone, believer, or not. We turn no one away, because that is not the teaching of God.
You're just repeating the same lame argument that CS Lewis and a zillion other people have made, "we can't be good without a god, yada yada yada."
Maybe the arguement is not so lame? Both schools of thought have been with us forever, so being that tis is fact why haven't Atheist groups banned together and shown the world its power? Why have Atheist societies failed, such as Comunist in Russia? Now I'm not saying all Atheist are not moral I am saying that humans need God, and that God exist through us. Now some have abused the power of God greately, and this is a sad state, but for the most part God's power has gone for the greater good. These that practice the foundation I have spoken about are able to except all humans of any condition, race, disability, sexual orientation, what have you. This being so religion in the total is a good thing.
How many wars have been fought in the name of atheism? How many people in prison are atheists?
Ya, it's lame-o. Sorry, but it is. Before I found Father, I was a good person; it didn't take him finding me for me to become a good person. I rest my case.
And how many wars are faught in the name or using the name or religion when in actuallity they are only pushing an Atheist agenda? Lots of Atheist in prison. You don't have to be religious to go to jail.
Now Hell's Child you confuse me. I'm not saying you're not a good person, but in your profile you say you worship Satan? I'll confess I only have a little information of this group, so will have to do some reading on it, but many groups that are such are in to much evil acts?
people do good things cause we know that's the right and kind way to be; religion doesn't, and shouldn't play any part in what you're trying, yet, failing miserably, to prove.
You do realize that your saying if you didn't have god you would be a terrible person. Are you really so shallow, so vile, so inhumain, so cruel, so utterly devoid of all compassion and human emotion that the only thing keeping you from committing evil and wicked acts, is the fact that you belong to a religion which has told you that you shouldn't? Are you such a psychopathic, sociopathic villain that you actually need the direction of an all knowing, all powerful being that knows your every thought, just to keep you from cutting the throats of infant children, starving those who oppose you, or any number of other incredibly, unspeakably disgusting acts. are you really such a worthless person as that?
You say that we build things where they shouldn't be built, like Japan? What, I beg you, makes Japan such a bad place to build things? Is it because they've suffered a few natural disasters? By that logic, no part of the world would be safe to build anything in. I cannot think of a single part of the world that does not claim some sort of natural disaster. Thus, it couldn't possibly be that reason. So please, tell us oh inlightened one, why should we not build in Japan?
Also, you ask where our hospitals would be without religion. Just because something is named after a saint, doesn't mean its religiously based. I live in a city called St. Augustine, you don't have to be catholic to live here. There is a hospital called St. Jeud, and it is not run by faith based organizations.
As a matter of fact, there are several non-profit organizations which are run by religious groups, and they commonly refuse service to those who do not agree with their beliefs. If you'd like an example, look at the recent court cases in the state of illinois, where the government ordered that no adoption agency would be able to refuse the adoption of a child on religious or sexual preference. who were the first groups to appeal this order, and subsequently the first to lose the government sanction they had before, why it was catholic groups.
If you honestly need god to tell you what is good, and what is right, and why you shouldn't kill or steal or lie or cheat, then you are the worst possible type of despicable scum ever to walk the earth. If you lack all manner of human empathy, then I honestly and truly do not think you deserve to live. If you can go through life and completely ignore the fact that everyone else is going through lives of their own, without need of the direct guidance of a force far beyond yourself, you do not deserve to take up space on our planet.
I feel sorry for you if you honestly need a god to completely direct every detail of your life; and if that god is the only thing that stands between you and a monstrous rampage of villainous, wicked and loathsome behavior that completely ignores and negates the basic right of everyone around you to live their life unmolested by your depraved, socially and mentally devoid interferance. If you truly feel that way, you are not even worth being called a human. You are worse than the most vehement terminology I, or anyone else can hurl at you.
Go and pray to your god. Pray to him that he gives you the ability to see that you yourself can stop yourself from being such a monster that is barely even able to be called humanity.
Let's say that, in the name of religion, I create an organization whose job it is to rid the world of alcohol, since drunkness is a sin. My organization does this by setting fire to all the bars, clubs, and restaurants in this world that serve alcohol. If anyone happens to be there when I do it, oh well, since it's in the name of god. So, is this organization a good thing, because I created it in the name of God? I certainly hope not. On the flip side, let's say that I create a homeless shelter that takes in the homeless, gives them food, water, and shelter. I'm not doing it in the name of religion; I'm just doing it to be kind. Now, is this a bad organization because it isn't in the name of religion? I would certainly hope not. My point? Not all organizations in the name of religion are good, just as not all organizations not created in the name of religion are bad.
O, and by the way, how is this an experiment?
I don't understand why you refuse to notice when I say we are not perfect, and that some religious groups do not practice what I call the foundations? What I meant by building where we should not it that in the case of Japan the reactors might have been better placed in the moutains. I lived in California for many years, and people build lovely homes on the cliffs above the ocean. Yes its lovely, but about ever 2 to 4 years these houses get washed away. Same thing in the deserts, they burn. Some places are just better left natural. The experiment was to find an organization, hostital that was not in some way funded and run via some group that were believers in God. I wanted to learn how if I was Atheist I could avoid dealing with this if I chose. I invited anyone to try the same. I personally don't require a God to make me moral and giving, but it seems for the most part that society does. In that vaiin, and because I believe in God it is a good thing. I don't see God as a power that knows my every thought and corrects them. I see God as a giver, loving, and caring. God has gien us free will, and thats a great thing, and when we mis use our freedom to harm someone there is forgiveness. No, we shouldn't take or use that fact to harm, but it is so. Even Atheist must practice forgiveness. But this was to point out some of the good religion has done sense we have heard the other side.
To the origional poster, I don't see any arguments you've made that in themselves are valid, or stand with out contension. Your experimant itself might speak more to where you live than where I live, as in the austin area there are groups of all kinds, that support all kinds of people. Thus, at the least your experimant doesn't apply to my area of the world, there by extension shattering the validity of your clame, that didn't really have a warrent to stand on. I really don't see what this board was created to accomplish, its muddled at best.
I don't see why people need a god to stand overtheir shoulders and force them to do the right thing, and I don't see how people can freely subject themselves to such. Actually, you could make the argument that many religions themselves are nothing more than a mass case of Stockholm Syndrome.
In addition, if you open your bible,and do alittle reading, you'll find countless examples of killing in the name of god.Hell, holocausts in the name of god. I'll be back in this topicto source and such, but just wanted to put my thoughts down before moving on.
As I have stated before I'm not trying to make you become a man that says his prayers at night. However, if you will have your say, and proofs so I will post for the other side. My post showed that religion does good, not because its the only way, but because it is in the hearts of many people to serve the fellow man or woman. I found no Atheist groups servering only to serve, but for the reasons I've posted. I found no Atheist groups putting out help for natural disaster victoems. "let your light shine." Where are they? I found that if I were Atheist I'd be unable to go to a hospital that was not religious backed. We will have to agree to disagree. You refuse to admit that Atheist have done wrong. You can't possibly believe that your groups does not. However, I freely admit that my side has. You don't want to claim the devil worship sector of Atheist, but you have it. I claim the power abusers of religion. Keep reading your Bible. Smile.
I'd like to point out the fact that atheists have better things to do with our time, money, and cherity, then forcing yyou to believe as we believe. If an atheist makes a hospital, or anything else, you probably won't know that its atheist, because we care more about the fact that your bleeding, than what religion you belong to. Only religion is so stupid as to worry about such an arbitrary thing at a time when people are in need. As for an organization that is non-religious, try fema.
As I said, if your research came up with nothing, you did horrible research. But as I suspect you don't even know what an atheist is in the first place, that isn't too surprising.
I suggest you don't want to own all your sides of Atheist groups. It is highly important to help people in need. People are always in need, so why is that a bad thing. If Atheist have "better things to do with our time and money." you see how it be if religion does not instruct its followers to help the needy? If God is not important why aren't Atheist helping in the name of Atheism, so that us foolish religious people can stop waisting our time believing in untruths? Humans tend to need some guide to how to conduct life. No matter how you look at it you gined your morality from some source. If you were tought as a child that, for example, killing dogs was the right thing to do, you kill dogs and not even think about it the same way you swat a fly that is buzzing your head. You smack that bad boy and never think you've taken a life. I suggest you study more on Atheism, all sides and aspects of it so that you can help others do it the "right way" We can't have devil worshipers and such can we
I'll add more. You see devil warshippers, people that believe in witch craft, or black wickins, colt groups all call themselves Atheist. It is the same with cult groups, the KKK, and others call themselves Christians. You preach Atheism as if it has no bad faults, or groups, and that if we all would become Atheist the word would be a better place? When you stop fighting and start thinking more you'll hopefully come to the conclution that no group is best. Be Atheist if you must. Preach its worth. But when you do this expect people like me to reply.
Everyone has done wrong at some point. that doesn't make us bad people, and that also doesn't mean that our intentions were always self-centered. Some of the worst mistakes I've made had started out as nothing more than an intent to help somebody that got out of hand. No matter what our intentions have been, we have all, at some point or another, made a mistake in the name of helping someone. Maybe you helped that person at the expense of someone else. Or, maybe that person didn't need your help and you ended up just hurting them in the end. this happens to atheists, christians, Muslims, Hindus, and *every* other group.
By the way, I, personally, cannot find a post here where an atheist refuses to admit we never do wrong. We just don't do it in the name of god.
Are you still believing that devil worshippers are atheist? How many times do we have to explain this one? Anyone who believes in any type of god, whether it is your god, or a tree, is not an atheist. Atheist means no gods, not a god damned one of them. I really hope that is the last time I have to explain that to you, you might try carving it into your forearm so you can tthink of it while your typing. Atheism means no gods at all.
Since you didn't actually read what I said while using any reading comprehention skills, I'll explain what I said. I did not say that atheists have better things to do than helping people. I said we have better things to do than worrying about what religion a person is when they're bleeding to death or starving to death. Religions cannot always claim this.
The reason atheists are not helping in the name of atheism is because we don't force anyone to believe anything. If your not going to be an atheist, its not for us to deny you anything based on that decision. Its your life, if you want to worship a floating man in the sky, that's your choice. We'll think your a bit dumb perhaps, but we won't deny you cherity based on it. Atheists don't think, for the most part, (and by that I mean every single one I've ever known or talked to), that religion and cherity should mix. If your going to be cheritable, do it because you want to help your fellow humans, not for some god you can't even satisfactorily explain.
Yes, we get our morality from somewhere, its called our culture. If we lived in a different culture, we would have different morals. Morals are arbitrary things, subject to change with circumstances. A subject I've also explained to you before I believe. Are you really going to make me keep explaining the same thing over and over again? There's this thing called listening and learning, try it, you'll love it.
Finally, I find it rather insulting that you called this board experiment two. First, you haven't laid out your control or your experiment guidelines, how did you conduct this experiment, what criteria did you use, what was the hypothesis, how did you go about proving it, we don't even know what result you got. You've done a horrible job explaining this sudo-experiment your trying to pass as some be all and end all research. Since I've never seen your board post, "experiment one", I'm going to work under the assumption that your using my post, "an experiment" as your first experiment. Can you please at least make the sequel to my post a good experiment? Don't insult me by acquainting my post with this shotty and slipshod claim you've made that your trying to snidely pass off as an experiment. Come back when you've explained your experiment in the scientific method, then we'll talk. Until then, don't try to compare my post with yours.
to the original poster, I believe it is very arrogant of you to simply state that aid organizations are doing what they do in the name of god. It is by far the most idiotic, asinine and just completely unintelligent way of viewing organizations such as the red cross who had done wonders.
What moral stadning do you have that gives you the authority to make such a ludichris claim? It is people like you that makes me want to crush the nearest thing to hand.
Because it seems that forereel lacks all ability to actually do and quote research, I have taken it upon myself to do the experiment so horribly laid out.
first, the red cross. This is its mission statement:
The American Red Cross, a humanitarian organization led by volunteers and guided by its Congressional Charter and the Fundamental Principles of the International Red Cross Movement, will provide relief to victims of disaster and help people prevent, prepare for, and respond to emergencies.
That's it, there's nothing more. they are a relief organization. No where does it mention god, religion, nor even belief. It says its there to help people prepare for and recover from emergencies. No religion anywhere.
As for atheist cherity organizations, I do not think they exist. Most atheists will not name an organization something atheistic because the cherity done by atheists is actually cheritable, rather than "for the glory of god", or in the sense of atheism, for themselves. They do it because its right, and not because god tells them too.
However, we can find some well known cherity organizations which do vast amounts of help, and yet do not claim god anywhere; much like the red cross mentioned above. Doctors without borders, FEMA, The american civil liberties union, the american lung association, the american society for the prevention of cruelty to animals, amnesty international, fred hollows foundation, the humane society, lions club international, meals on wheels (though some local units may be run by churches, the main body is non-religious), the peace corp, planned parenthood, and unicef. that is only naming a small handful.
Now, what about hospitals, you may ask. Of course, we all know of hospitals named after saints, saint jude for example, but are they really religious? After all, just because something is named after a saint, it doesn't have to be religious, does it? According to the website of St. Judes children's hospital, they are not catholic, nor offiliated in any way with any religious organization. The founder, Danny Thomas, was catholic, and saint jude was his patron saint. So if your an atheist of the caliber described in the first post, (which is an idiotic atheist to say the least), you can safely go to saint judes.
so then I asked myself, is it even legal for a hospital to refuse treatment, no matter what the religious standing of the hospital itself? I did some research on the subject and found the answer. Hospitals cannot legally refuse treatment on the basis of race, religion, or national origin, nor can they refuse to treat someone suffering from HIV or AIDS. so the atheist in question has nothing to fear from any hospital.
I think we have learned that we should not simply judge by the name of the hospital. Simply because it is named after a saint, does not make it religious. The same is said for roads, cities, islands, and dogs which are named after saints. Its a name, it doesn't make you religious or non-religious.
If you'd bothered to do a bit of research, you could have found this out too. It took me three google searches in total to find all the information I needed. Its not that hard.
Now, I would like to qualify, there are political organizations and support like organizations which are atheistic, american atheists and the secular student alliance to name but two. However, these organizations are not cherities, nor are they cheritable. they may in some instances give out scholarships or do acts which might be considered cheritable. Nevertheless, their mission is either political or social. American atheists fights for the separation of church and state. the secular student alliance is a student organization for college level atheists, nothing more than that. These are not cherities, and thus do not fall under the perview of this sudo-intellectual experiment.
I just get the impression that people such as the original poster seem to assume just because an organization like red cross is humanitarian, they must be affiliated with some sort of a religious following since heaven forbid there be a neutral group wanting to do good in the world.
You are probably right in your assumption, and for the record I agree with you. If I've read the scattered and disconnected postings correctly, he believes that religion is the only reason one could ever wish to do good. Thus, cherities must be religious. It is an impressive logical conclusion, despite the fact that it is based on the most unbelievable bout of lunacy that has ever been hurled at an atheist in an argument.
Anyone who thinks that it is impossible to do good without religion, has either never seen someone of a different religion, or is simply too blinded to see through the pages of their chosen holy book. Both of which I think could be aptly applied to the person in question.
very well said, Cody and Pikachu.
I'd also like to expand on Cody's statement about hospitals not being able to refuse anyone on the basis of religion. that's indeed true; there's a reason hospitals ask for your religious preference if/when a person is admitted. they do it to respect boundries, which means, oh enlightened first poster, that they wouldn't reject an atheist even if they themselves were devoutly religious. know why? cause, as we've stated time and time again, humans who truly care about others do good due to the fact we know it's right...not out of fear of punishment by an invisible man in the sky.
I had a similar experience not too long ago while I was job searching. A few of the places I applied to were shall we say, Christian themed radio stations. I applied there out of interest in radio itself (I have had a bit of experience in that field), and each time I was asked if I was shall we say, a faithful follower. I consider myself more of an Agnostic than anything else. I don't necessarily believe there's a god but nor do I believe that there isn't. But I could hear something in the station managers' voices that hinted tat my potential for employment would be affected by my answer. Oh they were the soul of courtesy but I nevertheless got the impression that even if hey didn't reect me out of hand because of my views I would have had to contend with them trying to convert me at every turn. I tried the religion bit and I found it complicated my life more than it simplified
Okay I’ll answer all the charges leveled at me.
Let’s start with Atheist being bad people. I have stated many times that I personal don’t believe all Atheist to be amoral, devil worshipers; however you seem to refuse to except you have bad elements in your group.
I do understand that Atheist is not devil worshipers, but groups that do it claim themselves to be Atheist. It is not how I believe, but fact. I picked on this point “I'd like to point out the fact that atheists have better things to do with our time, money, and charity, then forcing you to believe as we believe.” Because no matter how fair I am stating both sides my points get twisted. The major proportion of religious groups does not force anyone to convert to receive services. The teachings teach to give to anyone in need.
“Because it seems that forereel lacks all ability to actually do and quote research, I have taken it upon myself to do the experiment so horribly laid out.” My research and experiment are sound and yes I did the Google research. I did more than 3 clicks even. Afar my online searching, I read some mission statements as I posted. These hospitals, shelters, food banks, or what have you, wouldn’t have these names if not religion backed, founded, and supported. They do not turn patient’s away do to religion, but serve all no matter what. I did not find one hospital in my city that did not have any religious affiliation. The history of the Red Cross states that the founders were mostly Christian Europeans, and the rest were on board because of religious conviction. The cross has no religious meaning, and the organization does not push religion; however the major supporting funding comes from religious groups, or people. Many of the organizations listed are religious supported as well. I’ll take the Lions Club. As A child I received support from them, and the meetings were held in churches, not non-religious buildings. The people called themselves Christians. I also received much support from the Jewish community, but I myself am not Jewish. No matter how badly you’d like to ditch us soft brained, silly, stupid, and ignorant people, religion is an intricate part of the world’s society, so I’ll not apologize for insulting anyone. God is in your life no matter what you do. God is in your state songs, your pledge of allegiants, runs in the meaning, or current of the words on your statue of liberty. You’re leaders place God in there public speeches, on that vary Atheist money you spend, in your courts of law. We utter that God word in many different languages, even in our curses. It’s a fact that “you can’t beat God giving”, and that fact will remain standing forever.
Amen.
So your argument is that because it has a history that runs paralel to religion, it must be religious? By that argument, a building in new york, is actually in texas, because the materials used to build it were gathered in texas. the capitol building in Washington D.C. is actually in the south and a few other places, because the stone used to make it was brought in from sites in that area. The statue of liberty is actually in Paris, not in New York harbor.
Of course organizations have religious people in them, founding them, and funding them. If there is a more obvious statement in your post, I can't name it. A vast majority of the people on the face of the planet believe in one religious system or another. Whether your a baptist or a hindu or a muslim or a pastafarian, your not an Atheist. But then, by your logic, if a single atheist does anything to help build, found, or fund an organization, it is now atheistic.
Using that logic, we can conclude the following. In america at least, in order for organizations to be classified as non-profit, and thus be called cherities and to receive the tax breaks from the government, they must be given a license of sorts. This means that each and every one of them has received assistance and permission from the government of the United States. Now, the United States, as stated repeatedly in historical documents, is founded on secular beliefs. The founding father were at the least deists, and at the most absolute atheists. Thus, because the government of America recognizes no god by name, all the organizations that have received assistance or permission from it, are now atheist. By your logic, you just defeated your entire point. Thank you, you saved me a lot of work.
However, you still have not put out an hypothesis, or showed how you followed the scientific method at all. You claim you read some mission statements that show a belief in god and a strict following of his teachings, yet you also say that they are required to give help without judging on religion. So lets see some evidence, lets see some quoted primary sources. You wanna make the claim you did research, prove it.
Oh, and please give direct evidence to your claim that devil worshippers are claiming to be atheist. I've never seen it, and I'm starting to think its something you pulled out of your hat because it sounded good. Can you give us an example? Of course, by example, I don't mean, "well I heard of one once, from my cousin billy, who heard it from jane, who heard it from scott". I mean, "this is the website of the north american worshippers of the great toenail of the easter bunny, and here is where they say that they believe in the powers of the toenail, but are atheists". Can you do that? I'm talking copy and paste here, not just saying you read it, I want to read it word for word.
its a bit of a oxymoron in the sense that atheism is a lack of a belief in a higher deity and with devil warshipping, your still believing in a higher being.
@pikachu, that's exactly what Cody has been trying to tell forereal throughout this topic. for whatever reason, he can't seem to comprehend it, just as he can't comprehend the fact that atheists could possibly be good people. we don't have god in our lives, therefore, we're nobodies. since he does have god in his life, he's far superior. *smirks*.
Let’s start with my thinking that I am superior to you because I have God in my life. In any of my post on several different boards I have never stated this. If I truly have God in my life than being superior would be against the teachings of my religion. Actually being your brother/sister, equal, and sometimes sub servant to you, or your humble Stuart would be more my place. I believe these things, so am not above you, and never think myself to be
Now on the origins of things. Toyota’s are built in Asia, North America and Europe, Canada produces many of the models, Fords in Brazil, Mexico, France, Asia, and many other things have been transplanted, but it doesn’t change the fact that the founders, creators, or ideas came from the places or sources they did. Toyota’s are still Japanese that were built in Ontario Canada. You can’t say “well you know I don’t like Japanese people, so my new Camry has nothing to do with them because it doesn’t say anything on the invoice about Japan, it was built in Canada. When I was showing that God is in many aspects of life I was taking a world view not a US view. Now to the cutting and pasting about Atheist and the fact that some actually practice Devil worship or what is called Satanism. Some even belong to other groups, but call themselves Atheist. Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. That is a broad statement, but it fits my opinion.
• You see Atheist in my personal life that I have actually met, and spoke to are made up of many groups “there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere.”” In Western culture, some atheists are frequently assumed to be irreligious,” “although other atheists are spiritual.” “Moreover, atheism also figures in certain religious and spiritual belief systems, such as Jainism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Neopagan movementssuch as Wicca.” Wortha pedia. “Most, if not all Satanists are atheists. They do not believe that a god or gods exists, as such. However, they do believe that.” spirituality and religion is an effective tool in manipulating our emotions and psyches.” wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_satanism_and_atheism
•
Now some Atheist use a symbol to show they are Atheist “The downward-pointing pentagram is often used to represent Satanism. It is a cross or star type ornament. “Satanist groups that appeared after the 1960s are widely diverse, but two major trends are Theistic Satanism and Atheistic Satanism.” Now I understand that all you that have posted on this board are not Satanist, but the fact seems to stand, and I cut and pasted some things for you as ask, that Atheist have groups that are. (Wikipedia,) Again my opinion is not only based on what I read online and in books, but what I have seen, experienced, places I have been, people I have spoken to and hung out with. I posted some place that in my city we have a shop dedicated to Atheist, Satanism, and Wicca, books, products and such. I’m not a person to read something and just take it as the (gospel) Smile.
This next page made me laugh because the heading title is “the Gods Truth About Satanism.”
http://usminc.org/satanism
I do digress, because my purpose for this post was to show that religion does have it worth. I feel my experiment was just as scientific as the first one posted. read my opinion on that board if you like.
In rereading here I've miss a point I wish to make. At no time have I stated Atheist are bad people. If you wish to think this it is your choice. Also I do not mean if one Atheist person gives to a cause that organization becomes Atheist. What I mean is I did not find many doing anything in the name of Atheism, except a few. Read my top post for that info.
God is in our lives. He's in our national anthem, and in our leader's speaches. Okay. In some cases, you are right about this. However, just because something is there doesn't make it good. Hitler was once in the lives of many Germans; that doesn't mean he was good. Whether or not you choose to think God is good or not is up to you, but my point is just because something very commonly comes up in our everyday lives doesn't mean it's good.
Wow, your definition of the word research includes wikipedia? That's really... I don't even know the word for that. Do you not realize that no one ever allows the use of wikipedia in a sited subject, because it is completely unfounded. I could log on to wikipedia right now and write an article, or change another article, to say anything I want. I could log on to the christianity website and change it to read that they worship blue chickens and always hold their left nostril closed with their right ring finger, as taught in the bible. Wikipedia would publish that.
So I ask again, where is your research. You've done nothing but gone to a bad site and done no work. Research is not being able to find what you want to hear, its being able to deduce what is true about what your reading. Apparently you haven't learned that lesson yet. Please come back when you have the ability to do real research, then you might be able to claim that your so called experiment was as scientifically based as mine.
You also shouldn't call it an experiment, because it isn't one. You have no theory or hypothesis to speak of, and no system of steps and controls that you can go through and clearly outline in order to determine the validity of your hypothesis. Really, do you even know what an experiment is, or what the scientific method is? are you sure your not just pulling things out of your ass?
Before you post again, please, take the time to make it worth the little expendeture of energy I have to go through to right out exactly how your wrong. If your going to be a complete moron, do it quietly.
I had to laugh when you had pointed to wikipedia as your basis of your research. this shows me that you probably never atended college otherwise you would know no academic institution recognizes wikipedia as a viable, reliable or credible resource. If you really want to prove your point for real, please, I beg you, show some scholarly, academic works and stop waisting our times with this BS your pulling from wiki answers or wikipedia.
Wikipedia was not my only source. I listed others as well, but I’ll suppose these are not good enough as well? I also have no concrete proof that what you post comes from sound sources, or ones I believe to be academically approved either. I can find other urges, but I’ll grant that these won’t be good enough for your approval either, because they don’t agree with you. As posted I don’t just read and believe what I do, I actually have life experiences that cause me to think as I do. Just as you say you can log on to Christian sites and post what you what people to believe, so could I log on to your Atheist sites and write what you want to read. I could write a bestselling book, and have millions of people agreeing with me. The fact remains, and you ask for some clicks cut and paste, that your groups is diverse. Just like my religious groups are diverse you don’t have the monopoly on Atheistic thought. The Atheist are right of course, and the religious are really morons. You said it, so it so right? Don’t except it, but it is what it is. Smile.
Oh forgot. You stated I've never attended college right? I happen to hold a BS degree my friend, but you said I didn't, so you're correct right?
its worse the fact that you atended college and still list unreliable and uncredible sources.
If you can list some academic studies that were conducted, schoalrly material produced which concretely backs up your claims, then I might consider looking more into the kind of BS your saying on here and possibly take you more seriously. Listing stuff like wikipedia and other non academic sources is certainly no way of providing substance to what your saying.
Still, its not possible for satanist groups to be Atheist, unless one of the many non correct definitions of Atheist is used... Just as its not really possible to be christian unless you're actually following the guidelines. Most christians and many of other religious faiths take what they want and claim they're following the hole religion. Much like many claim to be Atheist just because they have the false idea that to be an Atheist you can believe in satan or what ever god. Using the term Atheist to rebel against any god worshiping religion in the name of another simply logicly can not work.
There is, in fact, a form of atheistic Satanism. Go read up on Anton LaVey and his philosophy.
Thank you striker, someone else who understands what I've been trying to say.
I would like to point out that you still have not outlined a hypothesis, or a theory, or a way of proving or disproving the hypothesis, you really haven't even stated a proposal for an experiment. Are you even reading these posts before you spout off once more?
Really, I have to wonder, do you really think a wrong claim is worth anything? If I claim that the second world war was fought with hampsters, you'd say I'm wrong, you wouldn't consider it an historical account of the second world war. Opinions that are wrong, and beliefs that are wrong, are just that... wrong. If you are a satanist, you are not an atheist. If you are a hindu, muslim, jew, christian, spiritualist, zoroastrian, anything besides an atheist, you are not an atheist. How many times am I going to have to repeat that before you finally understand it? Or do you simply enjoy basquing in your ignorance?
I don't really even see how making the claim that satanists call themselves atheists actually helps your claim at all. Hitler claimed to be a christian, as did all the people in the inquizitions across the history of europe. How does that help your so called experiment that atheists don't do cherity work?
Unless your saying that atheists don't do cherity work in the name of atheism, is that what your saying? are you saying we don't stand out with boxes full of canned foods and atheistic signs, handing out food to anyone who agrees with us? If that is your claim then you are absolutely right, we don't, because we're not cruel enough to do that. An atheist, for the most part, is a humanist, we do cheritable works because they are right, we don't attach a message to it. The people that do that idiotic act would be the religious.
Seriously, it would help if you told us what exactly you were trying to prove, maybe we could help you prove or disprove it. Come on, its not hard, we just need one little sentence that clearly states what you want to prove, and a concrete system of steps that will allow you to prove it. If you are college educated, you should know this already.
Another post from the Moronic faithful. He’s a Bible man, so has ridden in on his Ass, he doesn’t pull things from such places. (Smile)
In responding to the guns leveled at me I’ve really allowed my thoughts to stray from the point, so this will be the last straying’s. I’ll just have to resist.
Here are a few more of these cut and paste, but this time they are sertenly more academic. This article shows how diverse Atheism can be.
http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism
The next as well.
http://creation.com/atheism
I didn’t write these, but is seems that someone with proper academic skills has. These authors seem to be well educated and share my views.
Now I hesitated to post this next article, because of the nature of this person’s crime. I’ll state now, before the hollering starts, him claiming to be Atheist has nothing to do with the crime he has been accused of. He could just as well be Christian, or some other religion. He is in court because he wishes to be able to read his Satanic Bible and practice his Satanism, but he claims to be Atheist. The gentleman that wrote or published the newest Satanic Bible calls himself and “Atheist Christian.” How you feel about others messing up the definition you believe to be true about your beliefs it will happen. I’d love to be able to control the Christian, and other religious groups that don’t see the teachings of the things I call the foundations of my faith, but sadly I can’t. You are in the same arch with me on that score.
Now adding to this I am not saying that Atheist do not do charitable work. I am stating tht the Atheist comnity has not developed any places that say they are supported by Atheist, and run by them. In the skeme of things when you must go to a hospital you must go to one titled Saint somethinng, or with some religious backing. If I were Atheist and hated the idea that I had to go to such places for treatment where would I go? You have not told me this yet. Where are these organizations I as an Atheist would feel totally Comfortable?
forereel, you seriously must not read the things we're saying. so, instead of repeating myself when it clearly isn't being taken to heart, I'll attempt to tell you to reread the post where I stated hospitals aren't allowed to refuse people cause they're atheist. they ask what your religious affiliation is for a reason.
hopefully, that'll go through your thick head this time, for what seems like the thousandth time.
oh, and, forereel, you keep avoiding the simple question of how this is an experiment? you've been asked repeatedly by many of us, but I guess rather than admitting we're right, you'd prefer cowering in a corner mumbling to yourself about how awesome prayer is.
Happy Heart I have said before that it is because I actually did the work. I made some calls, I did some looking in my city, and I did some looking in other cities to learn if I could find such places. I did find some, but they were not in this country. It was an experiment. You sit down and you come up with something you think, than you set out to prove it is correct, or not correct. It was personal just like the other one.
Now I have also stated that I understand that you can't be turned away because of religion, or not religion. I stated that hospitals weren't my only interest. I stated that I felt that due to religion was why you weren't turned away. Its not part of the teachings. I also stated that some religious groups abuse that teaching, and that its not right. I have answered your questions. Now please answer mine. Where can I being an Atheist that doesn't wish to go to God's people, or anything remotely related to God go for help in all the areas I have listed? Believe it or not I'd like to know. I want to know because I want to be educated in that aspect. The problem I see with you and all that have posted here is you can't see the firness I have given. You can only see that I'm not saying "Atheist are right and that Atheism is the true way of life." I'll not say that, because I believe that God has a deffent purpose in our world, and I believe in the giving power of God and religion. Being that Atheist make up such a small group I wonder were would we be if we didn't have God in the world? I don't like the hurt people professing God have caused, but I am totally in love with the giving power of God and God's people. If you can post that us religious people are wrong, call us names, and such things I'll post the other side every time. The only differents is I'll not call you names. I'll not resort to using bad language to express my opinions. I'll not say you are not educated and such things. It seems there is much anger with you. Not you personally, but you and all that are posting. Why is that?
Anger? Probably more along the lines of contempt, because you're a pussy who's afraid of death. That's pretty much the root of religion, people are freaked out because they know they're gonna die someday. So thousands of years ago, they huddled around a fire at night and told little fairy tales to comfort themselves and each other. And of course said fairy tales were passed down from generation to generation.
its interesting how you think there are no hospitals where a non religous person can go for treatment if he or she wants to avoid religious affiliation.
do they not have general hospitals, university medical centres, and private doctor offices in your neck of the woods?
this is another example of you obviously not looking hard enough, or simply assuming something to be because you had obviously not come across them. If you just stopped and conducted a real, systematic thorough search of such institutions, you wouldn't have waisted our time inquiring about something which is completely obvious.
General hospitals have religious afiliation. Private doctors was not what I was referring to. Same with University hospitals. Many cities do not have university hospitals available.
be that as it may, admit taht they exist, a place where non religious people can go who do not want any religious affiliation
Keep in mind, he did ignore the part of my first post on this topic in which I stated that at best proves he's unable to locate these services in his area, and that its really a location problem if he can't...
Again, how many times do I have to say this, just because something has the word saint in its name, does not make it religious.
First, I have read the works of that man who says he is a christian atheist, and I can tell you from the standpoint of an antitheist that he has absolutely no idea what an atheist is. he thinks we claim atheism because we don't like the teachings of the christian bible, that it doesn't sit well with us, but that if those things were changed just a little, we'd be christians again. Now, I'm sure there are some people like that, but most atheists are not atheists just because some portion of the bible didn't agree with our sensabilities. We are atheist because we have sat down and truly thought about the world around us, and come to a logical conclusion. I know atheists who came from jewdaism and hinduism, islam and satanism. Most of those do not even have the bible as their main work, so his entire argument is idiotic.
Next, you keep thinking that because someone claims something, it means its true, and your wrong. I could claim to be a hampster, it does not make me a hampster, it makes me a nut who is claiming to be a hampster. Just because some witches or satanists or whatever have made the claim to be atheists, does not mean they're right. It more likely means that they have no idea what atheism actually is, much like you have proven in these posts.
Lastly I would like to point out this, no sane atheist would refuse to go to a hospital on the basis of religion, none, not a single bloody one. Why is this? Its because we don't care about where the help comes from. If we need a blood transfusion, we don't care if the giver of that blood was catholic or atheist, we just know we need it, and that is enough for us. I hope that there is no one out there who would refuse life saving help, simply because the hospital they were taken to had the word saint in its name. No one like that exists, surely. If you can introduce me to someone like that, then I will change my opinion, but for the moment I think you are simply trying to make an argument where there is none.
Oh, and general hospitals do not have religious offiliations, they are run by governments, who are legally required to be secular.
The problem with these two articles is that they are both written by biased sources. if you notice, they are both written by people who are absolutely assured of the power of prayer. the first article you sited trips over himself so much to try and cover his bases, that he ends up saying absolutely nothing. We can see by the fact that he mentions the cancer patient his prayer group prayed for, that he believes firmly in the power of prayer. The second article comes right out and says that the author does. This makes the validity of these articles very questionable from the outset.
Now, considering the fact that they are simply quoting other studies, and not actually doing the studies themselves, can we say that they are biased? absolutely we can. If we look at the studies they mention, which is easy enough to do, we see a fact which the articles you sited fail to mention, and often outright lie about. Often the articles you sited claim the word all, nowhere in these studies does it say that all the patience of one group or the other had the same results. That is why they are biased.
The authors of these articles ignored the fact that not all the subjects were miraculously healed, and simply said that they all were. That is why, when you are going to quote a study, you should go to the source of the study. Studies publish reports, they are easily found and read if you have a basic knowledge of science. If you read an article that summerizes a study, you are only given what information the author of that article wants you to know. This is what we call a bias. You should go to the actual source next time.
My appologies, the last post was meant for another board. Foreel posted on my experiment board, and somehow I mistook this one for that one; my appologies.
Well I do agree that if I were Atheist I’d go to anyplace that could and would give me proper treatment. That makes sense. Now on the Generals, I do understand that they are run by the state, and the state is supposed to not mix church and state, however, in my city, I admit I’ve not checked others; the Catholics are such a major force it appears they’ve taken it over. Now our University hospital was funded, and is run by the Jewish community. It is located directly in the heart of that community as well. I don’t know if that’s correct, but it is as it is.
On the man claiming to be Atheist, this is exactly what I’m trying to get across. He thinks he is, so he is. Just some people say they are Christians, and don’t follow the Christian teachings, they give religion a bad rap, due to their actions. It is something we must accept. You don’t have to like it, and you can holler all you wish that that group, person, or what have you is not practicing Atheism, or religion all you want, but people will except that that group or person are what they claim.
that's yet another thing we've been trying to tell you, forereel. just cause people claim a certain thing to be true about a group of people, doesn't mean it's fact. example: just cause you've heard that atheists believe in the devil, doesn't mean what you heard was actuality.
No, believing something to be true, does not make it true, not in a physical sense. Now, there is evidence that believing in something metaphysical will make it true; you can believe yourself happier for instance, simply by force of will. However, you cannot change solid fact. You can change state, you cannot change reality. Happiness is a perception, so you can change it. Atheism is a solid fact, so it is unchangeable. Much like my example of believing yourself to be a hampster, no matter how hard you believe in that, you will never become a small rodent that runs on wheels; it won't happen.
Thus, no matter how vehemently he believes himself to be an Atheist, it does not make him an atheist, it makes him a wrong christian who is trying to pander to the quickly growing number of secularists in the world, and make christianity palitable to the masses of those to whom it is disgusting presently. No amount of changing the religion, or him calling himself an atheist christian will make me or any other free thinking atheist like it any more than we already do. Its not going to happen.
As others have stated before, the reason there is no charitable organization in the name of atheism is because we don't feel the need to label such things. If you're truly atheist, you do what needs to be done, because it needs to be done. Simple as that. end of story.
Then what do you do about groups that call themselves Atheist that don't subscribe to your mold of what Atheism is or should be? Happy Heart we did establish there is a sector of Atheist that are Satanist. What do you do with these people?
We do the same thing you do about the people who call themselves christians, then go off and kill their children by beating them to death or something of that nature. We tell them how wrong they are and we fight against them, because they are not atheists.
But you do now admit that they exist? Just as I admit some Christians, or what I call religious people aren't practicing what I believe to be the foundations?
I never denied the existence of idiotic and vocabulary challenged satanists and wickins, I denied their atheism. They are not atheist, and thus cannot be judged under the same laws as atheists.
I can't say that christians are child beating nut jobs who protest the funerals of soldiers who die in battle, or who rape young boys and girls because they aren't allowed to have sex, or who actually believe the bread and wine they drink is really and physically the body of christ and the blood of christ respectively. Parenthetically, how those people can still take communion is beyond me. I can't say that because you would then say, but not all christians are like that. Its the same principle, except I'm saying, they aren't Atheists, and I have linguistical evidence for it.
I can, however, claim that the bible is a perverse and evil collection of ancient stories which promotes the killing and torture of others, murder of those who don't agree with you or follow your laws, persecution and murder of children, genecide, and a whole list of other wicked things which should not be allowed in something which anyone considers a moral code. I can say that, because its true, and you have no evidence for it not being true. I have evidence that it is true, I can point to the verses, what evidence can you present that it isn't.
forereel, Cody said exactly what I was going to: those people aren't atheists. so, I'd tell them how wrong they were, and fight till my death if need be to stop such foolishness from taking place.
I'm a true atheist, cause I don't believe in any higher powers. not satan, not god; not a single one. I wish I could record that on a tape, so you could play it over and over and eventually accept it for what it is.
Anyone who believes in a literal living horned devil is full of horse poopie! I see Satan as merely a symbol of rebellion against all the spiritual mumbo jumbo in the world, not a literal person walking around with a barbed tail and a pitchfork. And the word 'satan' means adversary, or opposer.
In that case, you, in addition to being an atheist, are also an antitheist because you are opposed to the belief in a god. Nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't make you a satanist atheist. that would be like someone claiming they're a Muslim Christian. and those of us who neither believe in a particular god, nor deny its existence outright, are agnostics; not atheist Christians.
I have to slightly disagree with you. An antitheist is opposed to the wishing that god did exist. They stand against what god stands for and the teachings of the church, it is antitheists who proclaim the evils of the church and think it should be overthrown. I think he's an atheist, but not an antitheist, at least not from that post.
Church buildings should be put to other, more productive uses, and these people should be stuck worshiping in their own homes. It works for the Amish, why not everyone else?
Matthew 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.
I’ll start with this verse, because I keep hearing “Even if a charity, hospital, shelter, were Atheist you’d probably not know it.” And other fraises to this effect. Jews hang the Mezuzah on the door post. Muslims where the skull cap, priest the robes of office, so why are Atheist so shy? Some do wear the down pointing star, but you don’t want to claim them. How can you convince the person that was hungry and was fed by the sisters at the local church, given clothing, and other necessities that Atheism is the truth? How about during the floods, hurricanes, when the majority of the people on the street providing shelter, medicines, and much needed supplies are from the church of some thing or other, that Atheism is the way? How do you tell the patient who’s sick that the nurse that is tending him or her is bad when she’s been good to them, helped them recover, and all she’s done during the whole time is made references to God? If you Atheist are not “letting your light shine” where am I going to turn? Sure you have stated all the bad things about God’s people, and called me many names, but you can’t refute the fact that for the most part God’s people have and are doing God’s work in the correct manner set forth in the Holy Scriptures. Suppose I only had knowledge of Atheist that was of the satanic group, how am I ever going to understand that Atheist come in different flavors, or type? You don’t even want to admit this fact, so how are you going to convince me, a non-Atheist, who has experienced them, talked to them, touched them, that they don’t exist? When I go searching it is far easier for me to find good healthy religious people than the bad. I have come across both, but due to my life’s experiences I know that many God’s people are correct, and trying to do the correct thing by humanity. If I were to take this post as an example of Atheism I’d tend to think all they wanted to do was bad moth Christians. I’d not see anything worth joining, like a group of Atheist that is providing toys for children of our recent natural disasters. I can’t say when, but I believe there was a link to the Red Cross here once. Yes, I know, the Red Cross is not a stated religion organization, however I know it was started by the religious, so due to that history God is in the mix. You poste about Christians raping little girls, but note I was sensitive when I posted the article about the man in court. I did not post it to point “yep, them Atheist are rapist,” but to show that some Atheist believed themselves to be such and practiced Satanism. Here’s an odd concept, and I hear the hollering already; how about embracing God’s people instead of fighting them? I didn’t say believe, I said embrace, meaning except that we are here, and here to stay. We are a major part of life and will remain so. If you do this as I have embraced Atheist we’d all get along easier. Live and let live. Let your Atheist light shine, so that men can see your deeds, and maybe agree with you. This is a fair deal, and does not intimidate me, because I am strong in my beliefs system, and would not change. I’m hurting no one with my belief, so why am I here? I am here to defend the religious side or point of view.
You've embraced atheism, yet you accuse atheists of being satanists? That's pretty ignorant.
it seems that you have this very apparent lack of comprehention skills, or that you just do not read about the posts countering your own because it seems like all you have done in your previous post for real is repeated yourself near the beginning of this topic by saying all the people that help other in the form of relief from natural disasters, and how every good organization has a religious connection which includes it's historical context.
this redundancy just shows me that you are not even accepting the arguments made again your claims and you are choosing to simply count on the reiteration of your previous points to help boldster your arguments which are flimsy at best.
Ok, let me make one thing perfectly clear. Now I want you to read this sentence coming up very carefully, read it a couple times, maybe nineteen or twenty times so that there will be no chance that you will misunderstand it, I'll speak slowly and use small words so that it will be easier on you; here we go, ready? Atheists... do... not... care... what... religion... you... are... until... you... start... pushing... your... beliefs... on... others. I'll say it again, atheists do not care what religion you are until you start pushing your beliefs on others.
If you are a christian, and you sit back doing absolutely nothing but reading your bible and praying every day, we don't care. If your a muslim who just prays five times a day and never harms a soul, we don't care. If your a jew who spins his dradle every year and goes to temple every sabbath, we don't care. If your a hindu, bhudist, wickin, satanist, janist, zoroastrian, pantheist, helenistic polytheist, sun god worshipper, any one of the more than three thousand religions on the face of the planet, we do not care; providing that you keep it to yourself. However, when you start pushing that belief on others, whether it be by shouting bible verses on a street corner, knocking on our doors at seven in the morning on a saturday to tell us that jesus loves us, slaughtering hundreds of thousands for not agreeing with your beliefs, flying planes into buildings, blowing yourself up, sacrificing virgins, and any number of the vile and disgusting things that religious people do in order to try and gain dominance, then we start to care. That's when we start to get a little pissed off.
You want to know why there are no atheistic cherities? Because our cherity doesn't come with a price tag emblazoned with a cross. we don't say, "you can have this soup, if you pray to jesus christ for your sins". We don't sort out those that we will help, from those whom we don't, based on religion. We help humanity, not christianity or any other sect, we help humanity, for the good of humanity. Can you make the claim that your cherity organizations don't put that cross bearing price tag on their aid? Of course you can't, even that evil Mother teresa couldn't make that claim. All of her so called cherity came with a price, the price of catholicism.
There are atheist groups, but they aren't cherities. You want to know about atheism, its out there, but you don't look for it. Atheist groups have been in the news twice in recent memory, and that's just off the top of my head. Once to protest the placement of a cross in the 911 museum. then again to defend the governor of New York when he forbad religious ceremony at the memorial service for 911. That is what atheists do, we fight against the religious who can't leave others alone. We fight against those who want to control others based on the moral code they get from a two thousand year old book and that they have mumbled to them by some invisible man in the sky. we start oranizations that help Atheist students, give them a place to run to when the religious students start excluding them because of their atheism. We start organizations to end the control of the church in the government. That is what atheists do.
If you can't find the truth about atheism, its because you don't want to. If I had my guess, its because your afraid that if you find true atheism, you won't be able to resist it. You know, deep down, that the logic and free thinking of atheism would overpower the flimpsy pathetic little ideal you try and pass off as christianity. You've spent this entire board trying to pussyfoot around the fact, you try and explain how your not totally a christian, but you still believe in it. You need to pick one, are you a christian or are you not. Until then, shut up and stop repeating pathetic and stupid arguments that you know don't work. I suggest you go and read the bible, and maybe read richard dawkins books, and read christopher hitchens book, I personally suggest "god is not great". I truly think that your afraid to find out the truth because you couldn't stand to admit that your weak little faith is wrong.
regardless of the simplicity, his religious dogmatism might cause what you said to go over his head.
I've seen people like him before and regardless of the clearcut, rational and perfectly logical arguments or fact one might present, they refuse to let go of their stance even if they have lost all abilities to defend their beliefs.
I knock on no doors. I push my beliefs on no one. I am here because you are posting all the time about how bad religious people are, but you don't with to hear the side of one that is not after proving you bad, wrong, and who doesn't try to make you agree with him.
What I do is exactly what you do hold up my side of the debate.
I do not call you names, as I am called. I do not put your beliefs down, as you do mine, but I'm wrong, because i won't agree with you, and see life they way you would have me see it.
If not for the fact that you've posted so many boards about religion, I'll bet you never knew what I believed or didn't believe before I started posting, but I knew yours, all of you.
I don't mind you posting your thoughts, but as I have stated before when you do you'll get mine back. You don't have to like them, and I can see you don't, but I'll post them as you post.
Some of my thoughts have been facts and one of you had to point this out before you got it. I'm not stating, nor have I ever stated that all Atheist are anything. I am only pointing out the facts that some believe just as strongly as you do in Atheism, but do it differently thany you think it should bve done. If I am unable to except what you are telling me, how am I so bad when you can't except what I am telling you is the case and exist? You don't have a monopoly on Atheist thought, to bad for you, but that is life.
Nothing and no group is perfect, but to listen you you all Atheist are perfect and the only way to believe. You've not heard me say this. No I am not a Christian. I don't need a title to believe in what I believe in. It is personal, and I am as strong in it as you are iin yours. This is how it is. Smile.
you act like you aren't trying to convince us you're correct; yet, you say "this is how it is". taking after Glenja's similar posts, perhaps? "I'm not trying to convert you, really I'm not...but let me explain my point a little better in hopes that you atheists will realize you've been wrong all along".
oh, and, something no one has pointed out: why do you feel the need to put "smile" after every written reply? I'm almost positive you'll claim it's a friendly gesture, but I beg to differ. in fact, I'd venture to guess you probably have a smirk on your face every single time you write that.
I have never once pointed out the offending actions of one religious person. I do not feel that religious people are bad, I feel religion is bad. For example, I'm pretty sure that most of the people at jone's town were just normal folks, doesn't mean I like what they did to their children.
I have never denied that atheists differ in things that we believe in. Some believe there is life on other planets, some don't, just to name one example. However, I have said that the people you claim are atheists are not. Satanists are not atheists. This is not something from my own personal opinion, its from the definition of an atheist.
Please, tell me, how in the world would you know the beliefs of all of us before we posted on the boards? Are you psychic, are you stalking us, or did your god give you this information? before I posted on the boards, how would you have possibly known that I was an atheist?
Your right though, I didn't know what religion you were before you posted to the boards. One thing you fail to mention though is, I could not, under any circumstances, care less about it. You register with a care factor of zero for me. The only time you even cross my mind, or your beliefs, is when I post to these boards, that's it. I have far too many things to worry about in my life, I can't really spare thoughts for caring about your beliefs.
I do notice now that your saying your not a christian, what happened, earlier you were one.
I don't expect to change your mind with a board post, but then I was never trying to change your mind. As I've stated many times before, my goal is to have one person read what I've said, and realize that there is another way. If I can help out one person that way, which I already have but still, then I am happy. Again, I do not care enough about you or your beliefs to worry about changing them.
Cody makes a good point in his last post. none of us have, or would ever call out specific religious people. as he stated, we don't give a flying flip about people being religious; it's religion itself we feel is incredibly harmful.
and, Cody, I doubt forereel's views have changed; by saying he isn't christian, I don't think he wants it known what religion he is. strange, huh? maybe he's inwardly realizing who's right, after all.
I have actually posted several times that I am not Christian on other boards that Cody and other Atheist has started.
The smile it is a way to take the edge off what I say,I'm here to debate not fight.
My goal, unlike Cody is to state the other side of the religion view. I am not trying to convince anyone to believe as I do, only stating why I believe and why many others believe as well.
I am only posting because religion is a strong part of my life and I think someone should be able to rebuff the post that are made about religion.
I do have a hard time believing the Atheist that post here don't think people like me are bad. I think this because of the titles, names, discriptions, you make about me, so I guess its how you might feel about all people that believe as I do. . I could go back to several of your postings, and others that are Atheist and post all the things they call us religious. That be an interesting posting. I'd add that smile, because I laughed, but I'll not.
I'd like to say this for the record. The reason I don't push my beliefs on anyone, only state them is I believe a person should decide what they will or will not believe themselves. Children should be given a good base in many schools of thought. A person that comes to God, or religion because they want will stay strong.
there you go again, forereel, claiming you don't push your beliefs on anyone. well, here's proof, through one of the posts on this very topic, that the exact opposite is true: "God is in your lives whether you like it or not...and, that fact will remain so forever".
also, what you're referring to as name calling isn't actually such. none of us have once said something derrogatory about you or anyone else, and, as has been stated repeatedly, we never would. the reason is cause we, don't, care, that, people, in, the, world, are, religious. we, care, that, religion, exists, period.
No chelsea, I have said sarcastic things about him before. However, when you claim to have a college degree, and you can't even form a paragraph, I think its perfectly deserved; that has nothing to do with religion.
Forereel, you really need to get over your personality complex, your not the only religious person in the world. When we say things against religion, we are not talking about only you, we are talking about an idea, a belief system. You are not an idea or a belief system, you just happen to fit into one.
I agree with you that people should be able to choose, but when they are dragged to church from infancy, and any question or thought that goes against the beliefs of their parents is quelled, and they are never allowed to learn about the opposite, how do you expect them to choose? What choice do they have at that point/ I am here to present the other side of the coin; if you don't want to believe in it, that's fine, just don't shove the other side of the coin in people's faces.
Lastly, do you really have such little faith in what your saying that you have to put a childish little smily face on the end of it to "take the edge off"? Really, are you so immature that that is the only way you can dampen down your message? And why would you even want to. How would it have been if martin luther king or abraham lincoln had just chuckled at the end of every speech they gave and said, "Just kidding guys".
If your going to say something, grow a backbone and say it. If its contraversial, stand up even prouder and put some muscle behind what your saying. Don't use some kiddy smily face to try and make it sound like your being friendly when your not. Just grow some balls and state your opinion, and fuck anyone who doesn't like it.
I say exactly what I think. The smile is to let you know ther is no anger with what I say.
The smile is not for you personally, it is for me, the way I express myself.
I pointed out that God was in your life, and that was a true statement. I did not say that that fact made all Atheist have to believe. I used that statement to say that no matter what you believe or don't God is part of this old world.
If stating my opinions about religion makes you feel I am pushing it on you, what are you doing when you state your's?
What makes me different?
I seem to be the only person on this site willing to stand up for the other side, and that's okay with me.
Its only true in your mind, not in mine. If god is in the world, point him out, show me something that I can't explain through logic or science. You can't do that, you never have been able to do that.
I do not push my views on other people. I have never once suggested that the church of atheism, which doesn't exist, should rule the country. I don't take money from people without taxes. I don't tell sick people I can heal them with prayer or holy water, if they pay me huge amounts of money. I simply write things which you don't like. If you feel that is me pushing my beliefs on you, then maybe you should try strengthening your own beliefs.
As for the smile thing, if its for you, leave it off my computer screen.
forereel, Cody said it best. if the smile is for you, keep it to yourself. it's obvious to the rest of us that you're being immature, and, it's beyond sad that you can't think of any other way to communicate the fact you supposedly feel as you claim. so, I totally call bologna on your explanation.
I guarantee you, if I showed any number of your posts to an outsider, the first thing out of their mouth would be, "yeah, this guy is totally bluffing". however, if you get your rocks off by writing "smile" when you clearly mean something sarcastic, more power to ya.
quite frankly, if you were really as strong in your beliefs as you often claim, you wouldn't need to justify them firmly. we rarely bring attention to the fact we're secure in our atheism; only when it comes up. know why? cause, people should be able to gather our feelings from the way we articulate them, just as they do when you consistently write "smile" instead of "smirk".
lastly, as Cody said, if you feel we're pushing our beliefs on you simply due to how we articulate them, I suggest you toughen up and grow a pair.
lfao. this is real funny to hear someone's saying all athiests are devils. I feel as per the religious people's eyes, non-religious people are looking devils. eh?
as per my personal view and opinion, religions, god, all these are invented by some human to scare people and to follow the moral or the rules or to lead a disciplined life.
But even though we, athiest or nature worshippers are not believing those craps, we do the best to the society. than the religious people are doing to wash out their sins.
Raaj
I've never said that all Atheist are devils. I only pointed out the fact that some practice Satanism, but that fact has not been excepted.
It is what a person believes himself or herself to be, not what you wish they'd believe. You can want all you like, but you can't change what they say they are.
"I don't expect to change your mind with a board post, but then I was never trying to change your mind. As I've stated many times before, my goal is to have one person read what I've said, and realize that there is another way. If I can help out one person that way, which I already have but still, then I am happy.
That statement, all your board post, and your public conversations is why I feel you are pushing your beliefs off on others. The only time I speak about religion is on these postings, but you are all the time going on about it.
Back to the Satan thing, I also wanted to show that Atheism was full of diversity, caused pain, and such just like religion has. When you have people that have a strong will, a group folloing, and that group, for example, decided to restrict anothers freedom when that freedom is not hurting anyone, that is wrong. It is wrong for any group.
I have not stated all or anything is the norm. I have made it plain that all is not a factor I subscribe to.
Yes Happy Heart, that smile some times is a tease. If you can use smokes, I believe it is, why not my smile? Does using your term also make you non adult as you say I am? Smile.
Can you point out for me a time when Atheists have tried to restrict your ability to believe as you like?
Are we still going over this satanist thing? Seriously, how many times do we have to explain that calling yourself something, does not make it so? Do I have to tattoo it onto the back of your hand before you get it? Just saying your an atheist, does not make you an atheist, it just makes you someone who says they're an atheist. You can't worship a god, and be an atheist, its not possible. It is linguistically impossible, theologically impossible, terminologically impossible, and probably impossible in a few ways I can't think of good words for right now. The point is, its bloody well impossible. Its like a guy who eats beef every day saying that he's a vegetarian. he can say it all he likes, it doesn't make him a vegetarian. Seriously, read this paragraph over and over until you get it, just shut the fuck up about these fake satanists that you claim are proclaiming their atheistic tendancies. We've been over it, your wrong, grow up and move on.
If all is not a factor you subscribe to, why are you so willing to use the quote unquote studies that claim all prayer works? If you didn't subscribe to the idea of all, I wouldn't have had to point it out to you, you would have realized the falsehood of those sudo-studies yourself.
Yes, I talk about religion a lot, its something I'm interested in. However, you only see me on the site, that's it. You don't know me in real life, and have no idea what I talk about with friends and family. I actually hardly ever speak of religion. Its just that on here, there are only so many things you can carry on conversations about, religion is one of them.
Besides, the amount that you talk about something doesn't matter. If I am pushing my beliefs on other people, you are just as guilty as I am. However, I will be the bigger man. If there is anyone who feels I have forced them to believe as I do, then please tell me here and now so that I may appologize personally.
forereel, I assume you meant "smirks", not "smokes". so, to answer the question, yes, my useage of that term is completely justified.
how? cause I'm not doing it malisciously, or to make people think I'm trying to convey something I'm not. I say what I mean, and mean what I say 100% of the time.
I also accept there will be disagreements through it all, which is to be expected. I'm not trying to convert anyone; that isn't my style. I'm sure others feel similarly.
and, last I checked, talking about our beliefs a lot isn't considered forcing them on others. there's a difference between saying something forceful like, "god is in your lives whether you like it or not", and simply articulating our beliefs as is being done here. I think you should go back to grade school, cuz you clearly missed that lesson.
sure we can't change what people claim they are, but we can and will continue telling you that there, is, no, such, thing, as, atheists, who, believe, in, Satan. as has been said, there are atheists who, for example, are somewhat spiritual. that doesn't, by any stretch of the imagination, mean some believe in the devil. that means we believe solely in ourselves. nothing more, nothing less.
Now if I said people that believe in turning people away because of religious beliefs are not Christians, or hurting others not in self defense, but only to push religion on them are not Christians, or true believers in what I have called the foundations are not true believers, would you agree with me?